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	<title>Comments on: Our Future Lies in Our Past</title>
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	<description>The Voice of The Salvation Army in Canada and Bermuda</description>
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		<title>By: D Jefcoat</title>
		<link>http://salvationist.ca/2010/01/our-future-lies-in-our-past/comment-page-1/#comment-1850</link>
		<dc:creator>D Jefcoat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have taken a great interest in learning about the history of the church and love hearing, studying and learning the history of the Salvation army.  It appears that at times we in the Army have become the lukewarm that we are warned about in the Bible.  We don&#039;t want to say anything about our faith.  We don&#039;t want to people to know the gospel.

We do our programs in a fashion that pleases the community we serve. We used to have Hospitals in these hospitals we had many opportunities to share the gospel we have since traded that for chaplains that are an all religion based chaplain.  We have disaster response systems and are instructed to avoid talking about our faith.  We give out food to people we provide lodging to those in need, but are encouraged  to not share our faith.  

I have seen a drastic change in the army over the years and even in our corps we have shyed away from solid biblical teaching.  I have sat through many sermons talking about doing good works or do what ever you feel comfortable doing.  We have left the solid hymns for cushy non offensive choruses.  We have limited our church services to one hour Sunday mornings.  I remember when we had Sunday school at 9:30 then as a family we went to Holiness meeting and that could last up to 2 hours sometimes more.  There was open air meetings then evening service.  We had opportunities to serve our corps.  

It appears the more we as an Army want to appear like the churches down the street the more we loose touch with our biblical charge and I think that is hazardous.  
There are times when I have considered leaving the Army.  Yes that&#039;s right you heard me I have at times been tempted to hang up my uniform and head off to a church that has not removed its foundation.  I agree the Army is becoming more like the YMCA/YWCA.

So Leaders of the Army are we going to continue pleasing the world or shaking it up for the glory of God?
What are we afraid of?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have taken a great interest in learning about the history of the church and love hearing, studying and learning the history of the Salvation army.  It appears that at times we in the Army have become the lukewarm that we are warned about in the Bible.  We don&#8217;t want to say anything about our faith.  We don&#8217;t want to people to know the gospel.</p>
<p>We do our programs in a fashion that pleases the community we serve. We used to have Hospitals in these hospitals we had many opportunities to share the gospel we have since traded that for chaplains that are an all religion based chaplain.  We have disaster response systems and are instructed to avoid talking about our faith.  We give out food to people we provide lodging to those in need, but are encouraged  to not share our faith.  </p>
<p>I have seen a drastic change in the army over the years and even in our corps we have shyed away from solid biblical teaching.  I have sat through many sermons talking about doing good works or do what ever you feel comfortable doing.  We have left the solid hymns for cushy non offensive choruses.  We have limited our church services to one hour Sunday mornings.  I remember when we had Sunday school at 9:30 then as a family we went to Holiness meeting and that could last up to 2 hours sometimes more.  There was open air meetings then evening service.  We had opportunities to serve our corps.  </p>
<p>It appears the more we as an Army want to appear like the churches down the street the more we loose touch with our biblical charge and I think that is hazardous.<br />
There are times when I have considered leaving the Army.  Yes that&#8217;s right you heard me I have at times been tempted to hang up my uniform and head off to a church that has not removed its foundation.  I agree the Army is becoming more like the YMCA/YWCA.</p>
<p>So Leaders of the Army are we going to continue pleasing the world or shaking it up for the glory of God?<br />
What are we afraid of?</p>
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		<title>By: David Holliday</title>
		<link>http://salvationist.ca/2010/01/our-future-lies-in-our-past/comment-page-1/#comment-1847</link>
		<dc:creator>David Holliday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://salvationist.ca/?p=4886#comment-1847</guid>
		<description>1 Corinthians 13 stresses the pre-eminence of love in all things and says in verse 3 “If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don&#039;t love, I&#039;ve gotten nowhere.” 
Albert Osborn wrote 
“I must move thee, love must rule me, springing up and flowing forth from a childlike heart within me, or my work is nothing worth. Love with passion and with patience, love with principle and fire, love with heart and mind and utterance, serving Christ my one desire”. 
The Bible uses many military metaphors e.g. Ephesians 6. The Salvation Army has also capitalised on military metaphors. I seem to remember that at one time there was a slogan “make love not war” in secular circulation. Maybe that memory dates me. On the surface there may appear to be a contradiction but we read in Romans 12; 20, 21 how loving actions can be used to combat evil. “If you see your enemy hungry, go buy that person lunch, or if he&#039;s thirsty, get him a drink. Your generosity will surprise him with goodness. Don&#039;t let evil get the best of you; get the best of evil by doing good.’ Jesus is our prime example as always.
Any division between our social work and our evangelism is artificial.  We love because he first loved us. 1 John 4:10. We are saved to serve. Our evangelism and social action must be grounded in love. 
Unlike Cathy I am encouraged when I hear that The Salvation Army is the largest private social services agency in Canada. 1 John 3:18 says “Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.”  When our social service is offered in the spirit and love of Jesus then peoples lives can be transformed.  But it is the Christ-like nature of that service that is more important than the quantity alone. Love for the individual will also mean that we will approach individuals with sensitivity around the gospel message and respect their right to reject our spoken message of God’s love.  Sometimes we may need to remind ourselves that actions speak louder than words. When our actions are carried out in the loving spirit of Jesus then lives can be impacted and changed. I believe that our faith in Jesus is often caught and then learned. Our lives may be the only Bibles that some people ever read. Are they encouraged or discouraged by our presence and unspoken message? The answer to this question may well determine the future of the Salvation Army.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1 Corinthians 13 stresses the pre-eminence of love in all things and says in verse 3 “If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don&#8217;t love, I&#8217;ve gotten nowhere.”<br />
Albert Osborn wrote<br />
“I must move thee, love must rule me, springing up and flowing forth from a childlike heart within me, or my work is nothing worth. Love with passion and with patience, love with principle and fire, love with heart and mind and utterance, serving Christ my one desire”.<br />
The Bible uses many military metaphors e.g. Ephesians 6. The Salvation Army has also capitalised on military metaphors. I seem to remember that at one time there was a slogan “make love not war” in secular circulation. Maybe that memory dates me. On the surface there may appear to be a contradiction but we read in Romans 12; 20, 21 how loving actions can be used to combat evil. “If you see your enemy hungry, go buy that person lunch, or if he&#8217;s thirsty, get him a drink. Your generosity will surprise him with goodness. Don&#8217;t let evil get the best of you; get the best of evil by doing good.’ Jesus is our prime example as always.<br />
Any division between our social work and our evangelism is artificial.  We love because he first loved us. 1 John 4:10. We are saved to serve. Our evangelism and social action must be grounded in love.<br />
Unlike Cathy I am encouraged when I hear that The Salvation Army is the largest private social services agency in Canada. 1 John 3:18 says “Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.”  When our social service is offered in the spirit and love of Jesus then peoples lives can be transformed.  But it is the Christ-like nature of that service that is more important than the quantity alone. Love for the individual will also mean that we will approach individuals with sensitivity around the gospel message and respect their right to reject our spoken message of God’s love.  Sometimes we may need to remind ourselves that actions speak louder than words. When our actions are carried out in the loving spirit of Jesus then lives can be impacted and changed. I believe that our faith in Jesus is often caught and then learned. Our lives may be the only Bibles that some people ever read. Are they encouraged or discouraged by our presence and unspoken message? The answer to this question may well determine the future of the Salvation Army.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathie Chiu</title>
		<link>http://salvationist.ca/2010/01/our-future-lies-in-our-past/comment-page-1/#comment-1835</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathie Chiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://salvationist.ca/?p=4886#comment-1835</guid>
		<description>Sorry, there was an error in my comment - we take in over $1,000,000.00 in government grants annually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, there was an error in my comment &#8211; we take in over $1,000,000.00 in government grants annually.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kathie Chiu</title>
		<link>http://salvationist.ca/2010/01/our-future-lies-in-our-past/comment-page-1/#comment-1834</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathie Chiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://salvationist.ca/?p=4886#comment-1834</guid>
		<description>What is our future?  Does anyone really know where we are going as an organization?  It&#039;s hard to know when there are so many compteting voices from within. If we are going to be fruitful then we all need to be of one accord and on the same page as far as our mission goes.  

It often discourages me to hear the advertisements say The Salvation Army is the largest private social services agency in Canada.  However, I also know that Jesus sent his disciples out &quot;as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.&quot;  Humanitarian work isn&#039;t over and above the gospel, it is the gospel.  Faith and deeds go together.  We can take the government&#039;s money, we can use public donations but we cannot forsake the work of the gospel by leaving out the word of God.

When we applied for a (federal) grant to buy our building in Maple Ridge, BC, we were very clear that it was Mountain View Community Church applying for the grant.  We were clear that on Sundays we would hold church services in the building bought by government money.  Our DHQ staff had a hard time believing that the government would give us the money and so asked the government representative to put it in writing saying that they understood that it would be a church using the building.  They had no problem at all with that request and wrote the letter willingly.  It was our reputation as a church, not an humanitarian organization, that has earned such trust.  

Just because we accept government money, doesn&#039;t mean we are a government agency.  We just need to be honest about who we are and what we do and not compromise that, and God will continue to bless us.  I am continually awed by God who allows us to see new men and women put on those coats every week.  We take over $100,000 per year and there is no compromise on the gospel in our ministry.  We have more people saved through the week in our shelter than many corps see in several months of Sundays. We are truly blessed to be a part of that.

The times we live and minister in are changing.  It is a challenging time for all Christian churches, we are not an exception.  The Church must change and roll with the punches to continue to be relevant and reach our communities.  Those of us still willing to fight the good fight must be willing to make difficult decisions to carry on.  

And God willing, we will do so.  As we seek His heart for ourselves as individuals and as an organization, we need to trust Him to speak to us, gude us and give us wisdom.

God bless our leaders who have the difficult task of leading us in these times.  Theirs is not an easy job.  We must continue to uphold them in our prayers daily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is our future?  Does anyone really know where we are going as an organization?  It&#8217;s hard to know when there are so many compteting voices from within. If we are going to be fruitful then we all need to be of one accord and on the same page as far as our mission goes.  </p>
<p>It often discourages me to hear the advertisements say The Salvation Army is the largest private social services agency in Canada.  However, I also know that Jesus sent his disciples out &#8220;as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.&#8221;  Humanitarian work isn&#8217;t over and above the gospel, it is the gospel.  Faith and deeds go together.  We can take the government&#8217;s money, we can use public donations but we cannot forsake the work of the gospel by leaving out the word of God.</p>
<p>When we applied for a (federal) grant to buy our building in Maple Ridge, BC, we were very clear that it was Mountain View Community Church applying for the grant.  We were clear that on Sundays we would hold church services in the building bought by government money.  Our DHQ staff had a hard time believing that the government would give us the money and so asked the government representative to put it in writing saying that they understood that it would be a church using the building.  They had no problem at all with that request and wrote the letter willingly.  It was our reputation as a church, not an humanitarian organization, that has earned such trust.  </p>
<p>Just because we accept government money, doesn&#8217;t mean we are a government agency.  We just need to be honest about who we are and what we do and not compromise that, and God will continue to bless us.  I am continually awed by God who allows us to see new men and women put on those coats every week.  We take over $100,000 per year and there is no compromise on the gospel in our ministry.  We have more people saved through the week in our shelter than many corps see in several months of Sundays. We are truly blessed to be a part of that.</p>
<p>The times we live and minister in are changing.  It is a challenging time for all Christian churches, we are not an exception.  The Church must change and roll with the punches to continue to be relevant and reach our communities.  Those of us still willing to fight the good fight must be willing to make difficult decisions to carry on.  </p>
<p>And God willing, we will do so.  As we seek His heart for ourselves as individuals and as an organization, we need to trust Him to speak to us, gude us and give us wisdom.</p>
<p>God bless our leaders who have the difficult task of leading us in these times.  Theirs is not an easy job.  We must continue to uphold them in our prayers daily.</p>
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