Song Book Survey

Please put backThe Founders Song O Boundless Salvation as the number one song in the new Song Book

A waste of time and resources. Are there not other priorities?

Certainly it is an appreciable venture to revise the prevailing tune book. latest provision such as PowerPoint presentation is not being used in several nations; hence it is not a discouraging factor. I hope there will a piano version also. Looking forward for its availability in my place at kerala, India. thanks

If the only place where we worship is inside the corps, then perhaps Powerpoint is the way to go. But do we REALLY want to restrict ourselves to singing in just the corps? Does that mean we will never have open-air services again? What about singing at gravesides or at hospital bedside or bedsides anywhere? Once the decision to go solely with Powerpoint is made, that closes so many doors to singing; do we really want to do that? Personally, though, I use my songbook almost every day... Whatever we decide, we need to consider ALL the ramifications of our decisions, including the unintended ones.

Something other than a hard bound piano tune book, similiar to the instrumental copies, would be most helpful. It would stay opened without lining up other support on each side to keep it in place while in use.

My fear regarding a new song book is that we may end up with more of the modern songs which need to be sung several times and fewer of the old stalwarts which contain Biblical, Theological and Doctrinal truths reminding us of what we believe, why and what we shoul be. If we wish to modernise perhaps we should do so by creating an "app", I have several versions of the Bible in this format all of which I use at various times, I would love an "electronic" Song Book along side them.

No I don't believe that we need a new song book, we didn't need the last one changed, it's find if we are not going to take any of the old songs away, we lost some good songs from our old song book the last time that we never sing any more, I believe it's time that we stick with the old the new is not working. My opinion don't fix something that's not broken, just bring back more of the old day's when souls were been saved those dayes I believe are gone, If there are new songs been written just put them on the web all of our corps have power-point anyways

A new song book with spiritually meaningful songs is desirable. Songs written in beautiful language and making clear mention of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit, not vague, poppy or sloppy.
Stop satring at screens and powerpoint presentations and start looking at and caring for each other in a truly Christian way.
Eco-friendliness of computer systems is a myth and literacy among our congregations needs to be encouraged by active searches for the next song, rather than having everything done for us by a technician. We have become over-reliant on 'clever' presentation and have forgotten about the substance of the Gospel message,

R.H.

I hope it's red and I hope it's read.

I would love to see new song books in my corps. I have been attending the same corps for 42 years and still using the same books. I would love to be able to put the song book on my Kindle. This way it is always with me.

Open our eyes Lord,
We want to see Jesus
To reach out and touch Him
And say that we love Him

Open our ears Lord,
Help us to listen
Open our eyes Lord,
We want to see Jesus

This is just one of the songs in the new song book I would like to see included.

This is my testimony:

All the way my Savior leads me,
What have I to ask beside?
Can I doubt His tender mercy,
Who through life has been my Guide?
Heav’nly peace, divinest comfort,
Here by faith in Him to dwell!
For I know, whate’er befall me,
Jesus doeth all things well;

You lead me and keep me from falling
You carry me close to Your heart
And surely Your goodness
And mercy will follow me

All the way my Savior leads me,
Cheers each winding path I tread,
Gives me grace for every trial,
Feeds me with the living Bread.
Though my weary steps may falter
And my soul athirst may be,
Gushing from the Rock before me,
Lo! A spring of joy I see;

You lead me and keep me from falling
You carry me close to Your heart
And surely Your goodness
And mercy will follow me

All the way my Savior leads me,
Oh, the fullness of His love!
Perfect rest to me is promised
In my Father’s house above.
When my spirit, clothed immortal,
Wings its flight to realms of day
This my song through endless ages:
Jesus led me all the way;

You lead me and keep me from falling
You carry me close to Your heart
And surely Your goodness
And mercy will follow me

All the way my Savour leads me
All the way my Savour leads me
All the way my Savour leads me

There are so many more that speak not just of myself, but of the relationship I have with my Heavenly Father, leader of my life, Savour of the World, Jesus Christ.

Keep the old and add in the new!
May our Lord Bless all those musicians who make it so rewarding to Praise and Worship.
Blessings to all!

Over the years I've worshiped in other denominations primarily because of convenience - I still have an Army soul and am consistently blessed and warmed by the inspired music and lyrics produced by so many Salvationists. A new song book will allow for the incorporation of new music that will continue to bless and inspire millions. Like the old Sunday School song says: "this little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine". To keep wonderful new inspiration hidden is equivalent to denying God's inspiration. Other denominations do not have the prolific musical blessings that the Army has - Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.....

The song says he gives and takes away blessed be his name! any way i 100% agree with sheldon B.There are too many people on here going back and forth about what should be done about a song book! During the time it took to write this you could have visited one family to invite them to church so therefore i am gone. God bless and General Clifton i'll take two as well.

I do think that often the keyboard player is able to sing, and as a keyboard player I often feel left out when following just a tune. I miss having the words with the music tremendously. Looking at my even older songbook, I see that at one time, they were together. Powerpoint is great, but we need to have a combination of old and new.

As always, Heather Allington makes a good point. Why not save cost, preserve the priceless hynmody of our existing Songbook and bind some of the newer songs in a readable format ( perhaps allowing for upgrades from time to time....) so that the need for Powerpoint can be mercifully minimized?

Two song books? Many of us are still around who, perhaps with some fondness, remember the days of the Songbook and the very Canadian "Songs of Faith". There was no problem then with two books. Bandsmen carried the old red Tunebooks and the Blue "Songs of Faith". The "Songs of Faith" contained many of the beautiful hymns of the church along with some uniquely Army contributions. Much of what was contained therein made its way into the "new" Songbook.

The deeply contemplative spirituality embodied in many of our songs ( not to mention those unique to our Army heritage) MUST be maintained if we are to maintain, as a denomination, any sense of distinctiveness. A new Songbook largely containing nothing but today's so called "Praise and Worship" choruses runs an even greater risk of being as vapid as the current one might be considered a bit dated.

A new song book that incorporates new songs with old sounds like a good idea. Let's keep that balance available! We need to preserve our heritage while making room for some changes. As some have pointed out, the cost could be a problem, and maybe a supplement is the way to handle this.

Power point has its value, but screens can be hard on the eyes, with over lighting and moving backgrounds, not to mention dodging from side to side to read around a taller person. Nothing like having your own song book in which to make notes and record dates, as a spiritual journal. Younger people may not consider this important, but later in life may find there are songs that have held deep meaning at crucial points in their lives. If I had to save one item from my burning home, it would be my combination New Testament/Songbook! Of course, now I may have to save two of them!

why do we need a new songbook?why not have a supplement to the one we have now. it is a waste of money to make a new one. I am only 50 years old and this will be the third songbook. what will we do with the new books we have that families have donated in memory of their loved ones?my family will not be buying one . the songbook we have now is good enough for us.

Good point, "two cents", and a question we need to raise from time to time. But I think if we take a look at our songs where we seem to be singing about ourselves, and look at them a little deeper, we see that they are songs about what God is doing, through his Salvation people. Also, they're songs that celebrate people's role within the Salvation Army movement - so long as they're not putting down other denominations and other believers, I think they're okay. When you think of the joy and enthusiasm that those early Army converts would have sang those songs; probably for the first time in their lives they felt like they belonged to something.

I think in the sense that those "beat the drum" songs make people feel part of something bigger than themselves, then they still have value. But if those were the only songs we sang, that would be problematic too. And I do hope the new songbook includes more songs about corporate holiness.

Might singing about ourselves border on idolatry? Will this consider gender inclusivity? Is it time for the "angel in the house" to be allowed to die a slow death? Will there be room for songs that speak to corporate holiness rather than only personal holiness?

Like brother Peter let's make sure the new songbook is available online! Bring it on! www.salvosnewsongbook.org!!!

We have a wonderful collection of hymns and songs in our present song book but I fully agree with Jason L. who abhors the songs bordering on "self worship". It is confusing to new people who attend our servics and also embarrasing for some of us.

I have often heard people complain about the high keys some songs are written in, to the point that they just don't join in singing.( We don't have the high voices that our British friend have)

I hope the newer "worship" songs don't crowd out any of the great hymns of the church. To quote one of our leading Army composers who says, "My heart sinks when we are invited to sing the so-called "worship songs"...the crudeness of so many and the appalling so-called 'music' to which we are invited to sing these word is beyond description".

As R. Mason says, " Let us pray that those who do the final selecton will be guided by the Holy Spirit". I possess five of the SA song books that have been used, back to one which is called, "Salvation Army Song Book formerly called The Christian Mission", all a product of their time, and I trust this one will be the inspiration that the others have been.

I agree with concerned citizen, isn't the army in financial trouble? Does it really make sense to spend millions of dollars to create a "new" songbook. Why not just keep the old one, and use powerpoint for the new one. Give the millions of dollars back to the officers who don't make enough to live on most days. Or give it back to all the officers that wanted to take early retirement, but were forced to work now until they are 65.

i think a new song book and new songs would be nice for a change beacause we are alaways singing the same hymns in church more power to jeff arkell.my to centes any way.

a new song book? Once it is compiled it will be antiquated. In todays techno savvy world worship choruses from Australia Hilsong vinyard and numerous other locations are readily available. For territories still connected through print by all means produce a song book. If people desire them for their own personal reasons so be it, but I suspect not many will be sold in bulk to various Corps unless it is mandated through IHQ/THQ.
Holding on to our heritage and rememberiing our roots should not be prohibitive to our forward moving mission. Any carpenter that chooses to rely on business through use of non-power tools, dooms the business. Power outages are the exception not the norm. The life of a modern song book would certainly be shortened by the vast amount of new expressions of worship for a rapidly changing society.
Holding on to the old is good, but we must also allow ourselves to be accepting of the new things that God is doing. Worship songs in language that means something to the general public has its place as well as songs that are sound theologically, but also require a degree in theology to fully grasp its significance. The purpose of Jesus was to simplify the message of God's love. Should not the songs we sing also do the same?

The Salvation Army Songbook has many functions -- but more than anything else it serves to keep us connected to a real and valid Salvation Army identity: our doctrine, theology, spiritual formation and mission. Hymnologists tell us that the acceptable lifespan of a denominational songbook is 20-25 years. The Salvation Army has been within that range with each edition of our songbook. You can contribute to the new songbook project by completing a brief online survey. We need your response by April 18. Thank you for your help! The survey is found at:
http://saministryhelps.ca/songbook/

New material & songs are so readily available online from so many sources that by the time a new Songbook is published they will already have been around for a while. I have to agree with the discussion above that this seems like such a waste of time and resources for something that most congregations will not purchase. An online database that is constantly updated seems like the best solution. We wouldn't have to discard any songs from our history and we can add as much as we want as music evolves. To L. Ralph, there are so many un-used songbooks in corps that you can have one for your personal devotion very easily. My hope is similar to others that have voiced a concern, we had better not be forced into an unneccesary expense to purchase new books.

D. Jefcoat said:
"I remember several years ago the United Church released a new song book that removed songs like Power in the Blood because it might scare a child."

Voices United, the new hymnal of the United Church of Canada, had a rather large panel of very committed scholars, hymn-writers, theologians and other church members. It represented many people, ages, cultures, genders and perspectives. It made some very purposeful decisions, such as the use of gender-inclusive language (a major issue for many Canadian Christians), songs which address current cultural issues (such as the ecological crisis), songs in multiple languages - useful for its members (french, first nations languages, Japanese, a variety...), and the featuring of local hymn-writers. They also included a lot of service music and Psalm settings.

In the end, they decided that certain hymns would make the cut and certain hymns would not. The war metaphor/spiritual violence metaphor is simply not a metaphor which works for many (if not most) of Canadians and I think that there is some merit in seriously reconsidering its use (a tricky task indeed for an army). All of this to say, there were good reasons, in the eyes of the committee to go through this process of forming a new hymnal.

Does the Salvation Army have reasons? If their main purpose is to include new songs, perhaps a supplement to the current songbook rather than a complete revamping of the Song Book and Tune Books would be the more responsible choice (as Mr. Drodge has suggested).

Realistically, since the Army will probably forgo the idea of a supplement, I have one request:
Please remove the songs in the song book whose content borders on (if not indulges in) self-worship. I think it is unbecoming of a denomination to sing about itself in the worship service. It is akin to singing about a political position or nation; it is an odd practise, which I have rarely experienced in any other church I have attended.

The Salvation Army Tune book, as it stands currently, is a rich volume with many tunes which are sometimes quite hard to find in other places. They are often well-arranged and enjoyable to play. It has an important place on my shelf next to Voices United, Common Praise and a number of other hymnals. I appreciate the hard work which has gone into its creation. I, personally, am not convinced that a new Song Book is necessary at this time.

As a side note, I completely disagree with Sheldon's comment in general. Discussion forums and idea sharing is hardly a 'major problem'. Having a voice and an opinion and getting a chance to to express it is a great gift to one another. I would encourage people to continue discussing and sharing ideas - it is the very expression of diversity itself - a value Sheldon and I both share, along with our Canadian context, as he rightly points out.

Grace to You, and Peace,
Jason Locke

Is it really a necessity to print a new songbook? The one we have is o.k. for the day. If there are new songs coming on stream, then maybe all we need is a supplement. There is always the danger of losing old songs that have been with us for many years and still bring blessing and conviction when sung.

I have helped with the music over the years and the tune book should be updated. One with ring binding, the tune numbers the same as the songs,and what is the point of having some with music at the end of the song book. It would be nice to have available the newer songs especially for the smaller corps. I liked the email which suggested more availability over the internet. I hope that what you do will be worth while.

I think a new songbook is a great idea, the blending of the old with the new!

I know most things are on powerpoint these days but....

I love to have a songbook at home, that way I can use the songs that come upon my heart in my daily worship and devotions.

Good Work!

When will it be available?

i do believe that new songs in the church is a kind of spiritual investments...i would not agree on the one at the top(A concerned citizen)saying that new songs is not a wise investments...Maybe he's not spiritual and not felt the significance of spiritual investments...nevertheless of economic recession.

I have nothing against the coming new edition of the salvation army song book.
Here in our place. New songs or contemporary music and songs brought a high level of spiritual worship. That is timely.

Would it be possible to include the chords for Guitar above the piano music.

thank You

Oh here we go again! Look friends, here is a major problem within the organizational walls of The Salvation Army! This is not a matter of cost efficiency or a solution to a problematic Song Book. Why does there always have to be much debate when our International leaders or some council decide to make change! If a decision is made to revamp the current edition, then let them change it, and be glad that the people coordinating this effort are offering you a chance to participate. The reality will exist that nobody will be FORCED to buy new books, and if you choose to use powerpoint, song sheets, or lyrics written on toilet paper, should that not be the decision of each ministry unit?
We need to stop bickering about what resources to use for worship, what attire we put on our backs each Sunday, and what type of insignia should be on our letterhead. Our wonderful country of Canada which has long been identified as the "tossed salad" of the world, is a land which embraces diversity, and we welcome people of all nations to live amongst us, yet we (for some unknown reason) refuse to want diversity within the walls of our corps buildings. It is my personal prayer that we will begin to embrace the different flavors of how we "do" Salvation Army in this land, and General Clifton, when you and your team finish this project...... I'll take two!!

PLEASE I ASK THIS KINDLY, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE SONG BOOK WE ARE USING NOW ?
GEORGE E PRIOR..{MAJOR} RETIRED

The idea of a new song book is a very welcome on indeed. While the use of powerpoint has become standard practice in Canada and the United States of America this is definitely not the case in many other parts of the Army world. For a great number of Salvationists the Song Book is a higly treasured possession and Salvationists make great effort to own one for use both in meetings and in their own personal devotions.

Many Salvationists are proud of their song book as it provides an opportunity to become acquainted with the works of our own Salvationist song writers in a time when unfortunately we sometimes do not seem to value what is our own. I also know of several non salvationists in various parts of the world for whom the Song Book of The Salvation Army has become a used and prized possession

It is my hope that the new song book will reflect something of the internationality of The Salvation Army.

Let us earnestly pray that those who will do the final selection and compilation will be guided by the Holy Spirit so that the songs will continue to bless and inspire others in and out of The Salvation Army and throughout the world.

I find myself being of torn in differnet directions with the idea of introducing a new Song Book within our Army at this time.

As an Army musician for over 30 years, I welcome the idea of a new Songbook to include some of the new worship songs of the day, however not at the cost of losing a some of the great Songs of Army from the past. Songs of praise, invitation, challenge, holiness and Warfare.

Then I'm caused to think of the timing and extreme of this venture. We are still in the midst of some very serious financial times in our Army world. I don't have to look very far to see effects of downsizing and financial restraint in our Army communities. To drive through a community whose only church and evangelical presence was that of The Salvation Army, not to mention the only place of social gathering and community, and to see what once was a very important place, a place where the gospel of Christ was proclaimed, a place where lives were changed, and to now see that place closed and the very existance of The Salvation Army gone....that is far too common in our island home.

When I think of the extreme cost of this venture of a new Song book, and then add to that the cost of publishing and printing an producing Piano Accompliment books, Band Tune Books, and whatever else is needed, I think we need to look within. Deep within, and ask God to show show us how far the same amount money would go in helping to sustain and encourage growth in some of our smaller Corps and ministry units, how are struggling to stay afloat financially due to extreme costs thrust upon them in recent yearsfrom with our own Army structure.

The words of a song, take from our current song book comes to mind as I am writing this: Song 691:

Rescue the perishing, care for the dying,
Snatch them in pity from sin and the grave;
Weep o'er the erring one, lift up the fallen,
Tell them of Jesus, the mighty to save.

Chorus
Rescue the perishing, care for the dying,
Jesus is merciful, Jesus will save.

Though they are slighting him, still he is waiting,
Waiting the penitent child to receive;
Plead with them earnestly, plead with them gently,
He will forgive if they on him believe.

Down in the human heart, crushed by the tempter,
Feelings lie buried that grace can restore;
Touched by a loving hand, wakened by kindness,
Chords that were broken will vibrate once more.

Rescue the perishing, duty demands it;
Strength for thy labor the Lord will provide;
Back to the narrow way patiently win them;
Tell the poor wanderer a Saviour has died.

Fanny Crosby (1820-1915)

Maybe be need to re-think our mission, not our our Song Book.

I like what Peter is suggesting. Maybe a new digitial songbook is the way to go. I know that a lot of the small corps in Newfoundland would not be able to afford to buy more songbooks for the church. Having a Powerpoint presentation is much more cheaper and eco-friendly. Will there be days that the electricity will die, or a 7 ft person might sit in front of an elderly woman or a person may get tired of standing while singing? The answer is yes! In all honestly, we need to move forward and find ways of reaching people and not be restricted with songs that are in a song book only... My conclusion... whatever reaches people, use it for the glory of his kingdom!

Honestly, our corps would not purchase new song books, even if they had great new additions. The cost would be too high, and the reality is any song we sing is projected on a screen using software that is specifically designed to be used in corporate worship settings. The reality is many people today are even switching over to digital versions of the Bible, keeping it on their blackberries instead of in a bound copy. Sure there were those who objected to the printing press when it came out, but new technology is here to stay.

A resource that would be handy however would be an updated online database of these songs with chord charts, (this could be updated regularly), the ability to transpose key signatures quickly, and the raw database file needed to import into programs such as Media Shout and Easy Worship. That would be a great resource, as a great deal of time is spent hunting down new army songs such as Hawk's I'll Fight and some of Laeger's new stuff.

Something like worshiparchive.com or CCLI's website (ccli.com), but with salvo specific songs.

My two cents anyways.

Marshall McLuhan taught many of us in our teens that the "medium is the message". Content is arguably important, after all, it is what informs us, and so will the medium inform. I would encourage a creative look at the medium which could also impact the costs as our "concerned citizen" points out.

I think this is great news. At least I hope this is great news. I have ran the power point system in the church/corps. However the Song Book has saved our service many times when the power goes out or the system is not working right. And there are times when powerpoint is unpractical such as at a grave side services, open air meetings (If we even do them anymore), seniors homes. And I don't how many people gather around the family piano and hook up a powerpoint for a family sing along.

I am fearful that the songs that have such theologies, truth, direction, or cause us to ponder our eternal destiny will be lost in favor of a watered down song. I remember several years ago the United Church released a new song book that removed songs like Power in the Blood because it might scare a child. They removed songs that offended people. I would hope that the Army can assure to us that the new song book will not just be compiled with nice feel good songs but will still contain the songs like Dare to be a Daniel, Trust and Obey, Washed in the Blood. I look forward to a songbook that has those songs and the many new songs. As is currently the Song Book is a tool or resource and I hope this new book will carry on as such.

This is great news! Though our worship style is largely contemporary, I make it a point to sing at least two songs from the songbook during every service (my favourite section being "Warfare"). A new songbook will enhance our worship capabilities and perhaps serve as one more thing that rejeuvenates the faith life of our movement. Let's take the general up on his offer and take the time to offer him our feedback about what the new songbook should look like.

I never did see anything wrong with the old songbook. In our Corps the CO lists the songs for those who use the Songbook while at the same time the song is powerpointed. My concern is with use of " worship Songs ". All are so new and some are simply without deep spiritual meaning.A new songbook has been set in motion by the General. Simply we need to clean up our act with fuzzy worship songs taking the place of the great hymns of the church.

I would agree with Jeff Arkell that I trust the songs will reflect the distinctive nature of our Army. Also with reference to powerpoint while it may have its uses it also has its drawbacks. One of which is the fact that some of us older people are not able to stand for all the singing and when we sit we are unable to see the powerpoint because of others standing in front of us, this also applies even if we are standing when someone standing in front of us is taller, even sloped floors don't seem to help in this regard. I would also request that the music in the new piano books be fairly simple as many of us who have been trained only to play hymns have difficulty with some of the music in the current tune book.

The average life of a songbook in the army is around 25 years. I think that it is part of the evolution of the Army and that it is time to revisit our current songbook. I trust that song selected will continue to reflect the distinctive nature of our Army. Our corps very rarely uses Powerpoint. Powerpoint or not, for me there is something very valuable about having a book to hold on to and to read, not only during our Sunday worship hour, but as a tool for devotional study and reflection. Backward thinking, I don't think so. We change not for change sake but to be relevant to the world around us. We recognize that there are some great new songs that have been written (especially by army composers) as well as some that are terrible and theologically unsound. We need to put these in to the hands of our congreagtions!

I am not sure that having a new song book ia a wise investment during our time of ecomonic recession. For that matter, don't most churches in North America and Europe use Powerpoint to display songs? I think a new song book is backwards thinking for the Salvation Army.