According to a 2005 Gallup Poll, the most popular career choices for teens are doctors, nurses, teachers, computer technologists, professional athletes, lawyers, veterinarians, chefs, musicians, military officers and mechanics. Depending on gender, one of these options may sway you in one particular direction or another. More recent 2010 findings would add accountants, firefighters, fashion designers, forensic scientists and police officers into the mix. Salvation Army officership didn't seem to make the list.
What happened to the youth who view ministry as a lifelong calling and vocation? The survey responses hit me quite personally, as the very thing I'm absolutely passionate about doing seems to be the most undesired by the masses.
In the Canada and Bermuda Territory, there are 12 potential cadets who may be commissioned in June as Salvation Army officers. While this is the same number of disciples with which Jesus commenced his ministry, shouldn't we be concerned that there are so few Salvationists signing on to full-time service?
Some might argue that less is more. We should celebrate the fact that it is not quantity that matters but quality. Better to have just 12 Spirit-filled and Spirit-driven leaders than to have a larger group that may not make it for the long haul.
We could also look at the Gallup results in a different way. Imagine that being a preacher or a pastor did rank at the top of the career list. If every youth graduating high school sought to become a minister of the Gospel, think of the subsequent domino effect. If everyone chose to be in ministry, eventually there would be no one left in the pews. So we shouldn't argue that everyone should seek the role of a minister or officer, but rather ask why we don't see more people embracing this vocation.
When we engage this tension in theological terms, we recognize that the office of a minister of the Gospel is a holy and sacred calling. To Moses, God said, “I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people out of Egypt (Exodus 3:10). God's word to the prophet Jeremiah was equally as clear and directive: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations (Jeremiah 1:5). Choosing to be a minister of the Gospel is not a choice that can be made outside of a strong sense of holy calling. The challenge that may be confronting us is how we are assisting young people in discerning the will of God for their lives. How are today's young people helped to even consider full-time ministry as a viable life goal?
Our Founder, William Booth, had strong convictions on this subject. In an excerpt from The War Cry, December 6, 1884, he said: “We must have officers. The people are perishing. We want men and women filled with this idea, and filled with the idea of the Grand Remedy that is provided and filled with the resistless power of the Holy Ghost, who will go and force these same ideas upon the world about them.” He then went on to talk about the active role the community of faith must play in nurturing young people toward their sense of God-focused vocation. “Let everybody help God to speed it! Mothers and fathers, captains and lieutenants, sergeants and soldiers … put them on the altar. Spend money and time and strength in teaching and training them. Nurse them for God. When they fall down, pick they back up again. Get them saved. Get them into uniform. Write their names on the roll. When they get carried away by childish impulses … fetch them back again … Fill their mouths with your songs. Teach them your music and hurry them in every way possible to get ready for the fight.”
While in our postmodern/post-Christian context, some might question how directive we might be in “hurrying people along to the fight,” the point is well taken. There is a responsibility the community of faith has to nurture young people to at least consider the vocation of officership. Conversely, those of us who are currently in the ranks, have an increased burden and responsibility to speak about that which inspires and motivates us, every day, to be officers in The Salvation Army.
Reflecting on both past and present appointments, I am amazed at all the places ministry in The Salvation Army has taken us. Our lives are richer for all the people we have met and the lessons we have learned. Yes, there are days when the challenges can seem overwhelming. Yet, there come these wonderful moments when you see God's Spirit bursting forth in a human life and you know the journey has been worth every step. Certainly it has been a life of sacrifice, but also a life of adventure. We have placed ourselves at the Army's disposal. Yet we have learned nothing can outweigh the joy of being a part of God's unfolding plan for the world.
While underscoring the importance of officers telling their story as a means to encourage and nurture officer recruits, equally we must consider the importance of promoting commitment to membership in The Salvation Army. In order to have officers, we must first have soldiers. Challenging people to step up and sign up, as General-Elect Linda Bond has said, is one of our greatest needs. Only as people are invited to align themselves with the mission of The Salvation Army, and find their role within, will we find the means to open conversations about full time service in our Army.
Over the past year at Winnipeg's Heritage Park Temple, we have seen an incredible influx of community children into our congregation. As we have brought them along the discipleship spectrum, some have reached a point where we thought it appropriate to speak to them about junior soldiership. A recent conversation with one parent will always stand out in my mind. “You are inviting my son to enlist? Wow!” he said. “So cool! My son just loves The Salvation Army!” While it was important to help this parent understand we would not be shipping his child off to the Middle East any time soon, this parent saw the significance of belonging to something. As we chatted, he communicated his excitement as to the impact this membership might have on his child. This Easter we will potentially enroll eight junior soldiers who have come directly from community ministry contact. Who knows, maybe among the mix, there will even be a future officer of The Salvation Army. The point is that we have learned the importance of opening the door for these conversations and seeking to be a community of faith that will nurture Kingdom possibilities.
Officers are needed; people who will make themselves available to be used by God in any way, at any time for the mission of reaching the world for Jesus. Maybe ministry will never make the top career choice on the Gallup poll. But in Salvation Army terms, we will find increased ways to strengthen the nurturing of our officer recruits in the context of our faith communities. In so doing, we assist the young, and even the not so young, in more actively discerning the will of God for their lives.
Major Julie Slous is corps officer at Winnipeg's Heritage Park Temple. She also serves as adjunct faculty at the College for Officer Training. In May 2009, Julie completed her doctoral studies in biblical preaching. Her thesis work centred on “Preaching a Disturbing Gospel─The Homiletic of The Salvation Army for Postmodern Times.” When not studying and writing, personal hobbies include reading, cooking, musical composition and, of course, listening to sermons! Married to Brian, she has three children.
What happened to the youth who view ministry as a lifelong calling and vocation? The survey responses hit me quite personally, as the very thing I'm absolutely passionate about doing seems to be the most undesired by the masses.
In the Canada and Bermuda Territory, there are 12 potential cadets who may be commissioned in June as Salvation Army officers. While this is the same number of disciples with which Jesus commenced his ministry, shouldn't we be concerned that there are so few Salvationists signing on to full-time service?
Some might argue that less is more. We should celebrate the fact that it is not quantity that matters but quality. Better to have just 12 Spirit-filled and Spirit-driven leaders than to have a larger group that may not make it for the long haul.
We could also look at the Gallup results in a different way. Imagine that being a preacher or a pastor did rank at the top of the career list. If every youth graduating high school sought to become a minister of the Gospel, think of the subsequent domino effect. If everyone chose to be in ministry, eventually there would be no one left in the pews. So we shouldn't argue that everyone should seek the role of a minister or officer, but rather ask why we don't see more people embracing this vocation.
When we engage this tension in theological terms, we recognize that the office of a minister of the Gospel is a holy and sacred calling. To Moses, God said, “I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people out of Egypt (Exodus 3:10). God's word to the prophet Jeremiah was equally as clear and directive: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations (Jeremiah 1:5). Choosing to be a minister of the Gospel is not a choice that can be made outside of a strong sense of holy calling. The challenge that may be confronting us is how we are assisting young people in discerning the will of God for their lives. How are today's young people helped to even consider full-time ministry as a viable life goal?
Our Founder, William Booth, had strong convictions on this subject. In an excerpt from The War Cry, December 6, 1884, he said: “We must have officers. The people are perishing. We want men and women filled with this idea, and filled with the idea of the Grand Remedy that is provided and filled with the resistless power of the Holy Ghost, who will go and force these same ideas upon the world about them.” He then went on to talk about the active role the community of faith must play in nurturing young people toward their sense of God-focused vocation. “Let everybody help God to speed it! Mothers and fathers, captains and lieutenants, sergeants and soldiers … put them on the altar. Spend money and time and strength in teaching and training them. Nurse them for God. When they fall down, pick they back up again. Get them saved. Get them into uniform. Write their names on the roll. When they get carried away by childish impulses … fetch them back again … Fill their mouths with your songs. Teach them your music and hurry them in every way possible to get ready for the fight.”
While in our postmodern/post-Christian context, some might question how directive we might be in “hurrying people along to the fight,” the point is well taken. There is a responsibility the community of faith has to nurture young people to at least consider the vocation of officership. Conversely, those of us who are currently in the ranks, have an increased burden and responsibility to speak about that which inspires and motivates us, every day, to be officers in The Salvation Army.
Reflecting on both past and present appointments, I am amazed at all the places ministry in The Salvation Army has taken us. Our lives are richer for all the people we have met and the lessons we have learned. Yes, there are days when the challenges can seem overwhelming. Yet, there come these wonderful moments when you see God's Spirit bursting forth in a human life and you know the journey has been worth every step. Certainly it has been a life of sacrifice, but also a life of adventure. We have placed ourselves at the Army's disposal. Yet we have learned nothing can outweigh the joy of being a part of God's unfolding plan for the world.
While underscoring the importance of officers telling their story as a means to encourage and nurture officer recruits, equally we must consider the importance of promoting commitment to membership in The Salvation Army. In order to have officers, we must first have soldiers. Challenging people to step up and sign up, as General-Elect Linda Bond has said, is one of our greatest needs. Only as people are invited to align themselves with the mission of The Salvation Army, and find their role within, will we find the means to open conversations about full time service in our Army.
Over the past year at Winnipeg's Heritage Park Temple, we have seen an incredible influx of community children into our congregation. As we have brought them along the discipleship spectrum, some have reached a point where we thought it appropriate to speak to them about junior soldiership. A recent conversation with one parent will always stand out in my mind. “You are inviting my son to enlist? Wow!” he said. “So cool! My son just loves The Salvation Army!” While it was important to help this parent understand we would not be shipping his child off to the Middle East any time soon, this parent saw the significance of belonging to something. As we chatted, he communicated his excitement as to the impact this membership might have on his child. This Easter we will potentially enroll eight junior soldiers who have come directly from community ministry contact. Who knows, maybe among the mix, there will even be a future officer of The Salvation Army. The point is that we have learned the importance of opening the door for these conversations and seeking to be a community of faith that will nurture Kingdom possibilities.
Officers are needed; people who will make themselves available to be used by God in any way, at any time for the mission of reaching the world for Jesus. Maybe ministry will never make the top career choice on the Gallup poll. But in Salvation Army terms, we will find increased ways to strengthen the nurturing of our officer recruits in the context of our faith communities. In so doing, we assist the young, and even the not so young, in more actively discerning the will of God for their lives.
Major Julie Slous is corps officer at Winnipeg's Heritage Park Temple. She also serves as adjunct faculty at the College for Officer Training. In May 2009, Julie completed her doctoral studies in biblical preaching. Her thesis work centred on “Preaching a Disturbing Gospel─The Homiletic of The Salvation Army for Postmodern Times.” When not studying and writing, personal hobbies include reading, cooking, musical composition and, of course, listening to sermons! Married to Brian, she has three children.
Comment
On Tuesday, January 29, 2019, Eric Nzuki said:
On Friday, December 2, 2011, EDITH BRONSON said:
On Friday, December 2, 2011, EDITH BRONSON said:
I am thankful that back in the 1920's my father, the late Leonard MacLean found a War Cry on the subway in NY......It contained an invitation to The Salvation Army.
He contacted the corps then called NY 9...
He became an officer in the 1924-25 session. He met my mother there, the late Caroline Morris.
From their marriage came Leonard MacLean, Fred MacLean, William D Mac Lean, Edith Mac Lean (now Bronson)....
Fred was in the Ambassador session, Bill was in the Herald session and I was in the Soulwinner session. So I believe the ministry of the War Cry and the invitation given then has brought forth decades of blessings and multitudes of souls for the Lord.....
On Sunday, October 9, 2011, Colin .J. W said:
My wife and I are in our early to mid 20's. we have many years to serve God and we plan to do that to the best of our ability. Our strength comes from the Lord, our weakness from the flesh of this earth. Praise God.
On Sunday, October 9, 2011, Colin .J. W said:
I will keep going in the direction I'm following because I feel called and because I feel like by giving up on it I would not be fighting for the souls of men, but more like settling for letting satan keep one more Christian from bringing someone to Christ, or many people at that. I graduated the ARC program, overcame many obstacles from being ashamed of my past, fearful of the future and parylized in the present. As for my wife, she also overcame many things in her life and is knowledgeable about life issue and shes so passionate about God. We just want to share that. God can make it happen, people can't. If you know someone, out of the few were talking about here, encourage them. I encourage you to do that. God will do the rest.
On Tuesday, October 4, 2011, scott said:
I would content that this trend is very troubling both in Europe and the entire Western World. Not only is there a decrease in potential candidates but also a decline in many corps. Could it be that the forefront ministry The Salvation Army has been called to is immersed and diluted with so many 'program' and social services (minus Canada and much on the UK)? There is the saying in the Army that as Officers we must wear many hats...but isn't there also a thought that if you do many things in mediocrity the results will also be mediocre...instead do one thing really well. We in the Army have an identity crisis in an ever changing world. We have such a rich heritage but at the same time that rich heritage becomes tradition and as in many organizations and churches there is a tendancy to want to preserve and insulate ones self. So instead of risking much, smaller more calculated attempts are made but fear restrains total commitment to real sustainable change.
I would also agree with Pam, regarding the feeling of being "Stuck"...the notion that we sign up with the knowledge of this is some times a farce too because aren't we really recruiting at youth councils and the ages seems to be getting younger almost in a desparate plea because our "numbers" are low. I think instead of this major concern of statistics we need to get back to the basics of what and the who the Army is. Back to the youth though, when we recruit youth right out of High School or their first year of college I think there isn't a level of maturity there to make that kind of committment, albeit there are those mature enough at that point too.
John Umasanthiram, you make a good point too...in the fastest growing parts of the world the need for the Army's forefront ministry is very evident and real. It's awesome to see and hear of corps with 700 members and still exploding.
Long story short, this should be a troubling concern for the Army and I believe Leadership is seeking to find a way to stop this attrition rate as well as small candidate numbers in the Western World.
On Monday, April 18, 2011, Pam said:
On Thursday, March 31, 2011, John Umasanthiram said:
I had the priviledge of working and visiting many countries, but my time in Indonesia has spiritually uplifted me. In some places where the Army works... there is no car or other means of transport.... you walk and walk into the jungles, mountains and walk across the rivers. Yet people from the urban environment are willing to go into the interior and serve God. They have found great joy and people are giving up their good job, young graduates and professional are giving themselves for the ministry.
Whatever material blessing we have on this earth is just a loan from God... it can disappear anytime but the presence of God and His promises will stay with us always. So for full satisfaction of our heart let us seek the presence of God and be happy with what we have.
Come to Indonesia and see the hand of God working in the heart of the people. As an expatriate personnel working in Indonesia, I am very proud of The Salvation Army and its evangelical, social, medical and educational activities. God bless our Army.
On Wednesday, March 30, 2011, Anonymous said:
I do not personally believe that single spouse officership works. Although still in its infancy, the Army seems to place high standards on who they will accept for this practice and who they will not.
I would not agree that officers are "comfortable". Many officers face the fear of what happens at retirement. There is no comfort in having to accept a retirement package and then go out and find another full time job because the pension is not enough.
As well as for the army dictating how many children you may have, that is an outdated theory. They no longer encourage you to have a set amount of children. Even in the days it was reccomended how many you have, it was not like they would threaten your officership if you had one or two too many.
What car you drive, take a look again. A great number of officers are now providing their own vehicles and not taking the ones provided for them.
Sadly it seems as if the lack of response to officership is reflectant on the "What's in it for me?" generation.
On Thursday, March 24, 2011, John Umasanthiram said:
- accept their skills and knowledge.
- Match their skills to the relevant ministry... eg. social, corps, finance, etc..
- Believe and trust in them
- culture, country, religious background also plays an important in preparing the people.
Recently, I was in large meeting in Indonesia, at the call for officers there were more than 30 young people run forward to offer themselves for officership. Many of them young professionals, who believe they can serve God through the Army.
Yes God is calling many young people.... let us be the ambassadors and role model to them and let them see Jesus in our day to day life.
God bless our people.
John Umasanthiram
On Thursday, March 24, 2011, Randy Holden said:
On Saturday, March 19, 2011, Benson said:
On Friday, March 18, 2011, Heather Allington said:
On Wednesday, March 16, 2011, Ish said:
On Tuesday, March 15, 2011, heidi adams said:
On Tuesday, March 15, 2011, Sid Brace. said:
one Colonel, and five retired women Officers. Three have been promoted to glory.
By the way, our's was the Faithful Session.
Truely "there's no life like it.''
I thank God for His Call to me and The Salvation Army for the opportunity
to serve and to reach others in His Name.
On Monday, March 14, 2011, Jaclyn said:
I do also agree with Rob that recruitment is improving, with divisional events (I have attended a few as a CFOT rep since being in training college), and the candidates weekends that are held at the CFOT. However as Herb mentions, it needs to be developed on the corps level.
While I was at my home corps, there was little to no evidence of "cultivating candidates" that I was aware of before I expressed an interest to my officer upon their arrival at the corps about going to training college. I'm not sure what it is like now; I have been away for a couple of years. Certainly in my case with the training college being in Winnipeg, having cadets around the corps helped resurface an earlier calling to officership, but not everyone has that benefit across the country.
Not to disagree with Moe(but), the point about being told where to live and what car to drive etc is quite valid to some, but for me it is a drawing point that if I am going to serve in the Army, that I don't need to worry about these types of things.
Julie mentions in the article, the domino effect that might occur if every youth graduating high school put that they want to be a minister of the gospel at the top of their list. However the most common question I hear repeated in my own interactions with candidate recruitment is “why do I need to be an officer to be a minister of the gospel?” Questions like this need our serious consideration.
My question to Major Julie and all other army leaders is this: What are you (personally) doing to help you people "consider full time ministry as a viable life goal?"
On Monday, March 14, 2011, B Oxford said:
Do we (as an Army) look appealing? When non-officer's look at Officer's, do they see something that they want to become? Have Officer's lost their zeal? How are Officer's portraying their roles to other Salvationists?
I wonder if the Army has been so focused on being the largest Social Services provider outside of Government that we have lost our focus as to why we serve in the first place? Do people not want to join because they see us mainly as a Social Army and not a Salvation Army?
How about our holiness teaching? It's rarely taught. You rarely hear a holiness testimony anymore. Our holiness meetings have turned to Morning Worship. It was the Army's calling to Salvation and Holy living that drew me to become a Salvation Army Officer, and it's why I remain a part of The Salvation Army today. Have we allowed our Salvationist the opportunity to receive a fresh baptism as our forefathers so often spoke about? Maybe we have become too self-reliant.
I'm sure nobody has "the" answer to why people are not joining the ranks. However, open discussion is good and I continue to hope and pray that men and women will hear the call and respond.
On Saturday, March 12, 2011, Herb Presley said:
Yes, I know that there are many things that would entice a young person to consider other forms of "career", but, after all, is officership really a career? It seems to me that when God calls someone and promises to give them strength and wisdom to follow His will, that He encourages a lifetime committment - a life of sacrifice.
On Saturday, March 12, 2011, Dave said:
First and foremost, I think, are the ones that the Army can, at least at this stage, no longer do anything about. Canada is simply no longer a Christian nation, and the Christian church as a whole is in steady but sure decline. This is a trend that will continue, despite some perhaps highly localized pockets of exception. That the Army has not been caught in the crossfire of this development- what with our tradtional uniqueness and relatively small numbers-is an understatement. One only need look at our declining,aging congregations ( relative even to population growth)to realize this. Add some of the societal factors such as the unwillingness of today's youth to commit for life to just about anything, and the general "dumbing down" of evangelical Protestanism in general and Salvationism in particular and you have a serious problem
But the Army as a church must also bear some of the responsibility. First and foremost, in my opinion, has been the slow but steady erosion of our distinctivenes. We have also failed, generally speaking, to care for, nurture, and properly disciple our young people. Particularly in these times, with so many, many competing voices for their minds and hearts the Army has fallen far short of ensuring that service to God through the Army in full time service is looked upon as a sacred and divince calling, a worthy vocation, and something that can magnify and give full expression to one's God given ambition. It is little wonder that officership is often viewed as "if I can't do anything else I will go and be an officer".
If the Army is to survive at all ....with its divine mission to serve suffering humanity and, as we move through this century, as a Chritian church these trends must be reversed.
Can this happen?
On Friday, March 11, 2011, Rob Jeffery said:
Overall, I think there’s been many good points made in the postings, but some misconceptions as well. The belief that nothing is being done regarding candidate recruitment is quite wrong. The call to officership is being given at Youth Councils and other events, certainly across my division – and across the Territory as well. Our training college has held candidates weekends where people have come from all over Canada to check it out. I think these efforts, combined with the call being sounded from the platforms of our corps, will prove to be successful. God wants his Salvation Army to succeed; the candidates are coming, and they will continue to come.
Moe’s comments may reflect a reality that he experienced and we should not doubt him. He does correctly hint at the difficulties that officers in ministry face, but I would say that most of these difficulties stem from the difficult nature of our calling rather than attempts made by the organization to control us. I know I certainly don’t feel controlled.
I think the smaller sessions we’re seeing today is indicative of our Canadian culture. The prospect of a life-long calling doesn’t resonate with many youth today. Many of my friends from my university days (and that’s only back to 2004) have had 2-3 career changes in the short span of 7 years. That is incredible when you think of it! For me, I’m comfortable with smaller sessions of people who understand that this is for life, rather than the large sessions of old where a session could lose as much as 40% of officers within the first 10 years of ministry.
I like Major Julie’s article because it speaks to the calling of ministry. Helping people of any age to discern that call in their lives I know is my goal – and is also the goal of every other officer, and local officer (CSM, YPSM, etc) across this great country. So let’s not frame this issue in terms of blame (i.e. who is at fault), but let’s ask ourselves the following questions: “Am I a person that encourages people in my corps to explore a life of ministry?” and “If the vocation of ministry is something I’m physically and mentally able to do, is God calling me to be an officer?”
On Friday, March 11, 2011, christine said:
On Friday, March 11, 2011, Herb Presley said:
The problem with the Army is not that it refuses to change - evidence the freedom that many corps now have in Canada to worship in other ways than the traditional "band and songsters" approach. The problem is that people who want change haven't given much thought to where that change would lead them and many corps are now struggling to find an identity that works for them.
You have every right to worship wherever you choose, but you shouldn't think that just because the Army doesn't fit your particular expectations, that its practices are outdated and wrong. I wish you well wherever you choose to go.
On Friday, March 11, 2011, heidi adams said:
I agree we need to much more aggressively promote officership from our Corps pulpits. While growing up in NL, I perceived a bashfulness around the subject of officer recruitment. People my age jokingly pegged it as a fall-back job- if everything else in life doesn't work out, just become an officer. Candidate seminars were re-labeled 'Design for Life', trying to appeal to a wider audience.
There is nothing shameful in approaching young and old alike to answer the call to officership. We NEED more officers in this territory. William Booth wasn't backward or bashful in his recruiting tactics. Neither should we be!
I believe God is faithful. I believe this is His Army. I believe a day is coming when our training college numbers will be filled to capacity with on-fire young people! Young people who aren't intimidated by the demand on officers for full surrender- for accepting the trivial material things- cars, houses, retirement plans. Young people who aren't concerned with the treasures on earth, but the treasures in heaven.
We've all got to wrestle with the calling. If God isn't calling you why not encourage someone else to consider it today?
On Friday, March 11, 2011, Moe said:
Army dedicates where you must move, what car you must drive, what house you will reside in, how many children you are allowed to have, etc. The list goes on. This generation will not just become “yes-men” but rather take a stand on certain issues and stand up against the normal practice of church.
I attended the Salvation Army for years but I became sick and tired of Army politics and how people in the congregation tried to rule my life. The Army has a long way to go to get away from the past problems and I am afraid that people like Herb who blatantly thinks that corps who are “different” is wrong will not solve the problem. Is it too late for the Army to change? Statistics and “the feet of the congregants” are saying yes.
On Thursday, March 10, 2011, walter boland said:
Andre and Sister Gladys may give us some direction..he posed the question.has the Army sat the bar too high,and are the wrong standards being applied.. WITH THOSE WHOM GOD HAS CALLED....
My question is..Who has the authority to interfere with or to deny any young christian person of responding to God's call to Fulltime Ministry..maybe
1 Co 1:26,27 should be revisited..Mat 23:13 IS ALSO FOOD FOR THOUGHT...
Mat 18: 6,7,14 maybe of some help...MAN OUGHT TO BE VERY RELUCTANT IN DEALING
CARELESSLY OR ENGAGING IN ANY ACTIVITY THAT MIGHT DISCOURAGE ANY PERSON OF ANY AGE FROM RESPONDING TO GOD'S CALL ON THEIR LIVES..ret'd csm w.boland
On Thursday, March 10, 2011, Herb Presley said:
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