The year: 1991. The place: College for Officer Training, Toronto. The event: creation versus evolution debate in theology class. The people: theology professor—a young-earth creationist; cadets in the Followers of Jesus Session.
Although I was completely intimidated, this event had a profound impact on my faith journey. As a high school student, math and science were not my favourite subjects. Chemistry formulas, algebra and dissecting frogs gave me headaches and nausea. I enjoyed English literature, got lost in ancient history and philosophy, and excelled in the musical arts. When told I didn't need to take any more math and science classes, I jumped for joy and walked out of the guidance counsellor's office smiling all the way home.
The professor paired us up and asked us to choose sides for the debate. My classmate had no interest in presenting a case for evolution. He believed in a literal six-day creation. I hesitantly took on the opposing view. My theology teacher was positively glowing at the prospect of me finding out evolution was for the birds. He directed me to our education officer, a progressive creationist, who was equally pleased I was going to study a favourite topic of his and gave me several books to read.
I took the pile of books back to my campus apartment and began to read about carbon dating and paleontology. It was fascinating. It seemed there was quite a bit of scientific evidence supporting the view of an old earth, one that has evolved over time.
I also began to learn a new way of studying the creation accounts in the Old Testament. I discovered there were two—Genesis 1 and 2 differed slightly, mixing up the order of creation. I hadn't really noticed this before. What if there were other inconsistencies?
There were, and each time I came across one I applied the same principles of study. At the same time, I remembered, “All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17 NRSV).
After presenting the evidence for evolution to my class that day in 1991, the teacher challenged me: “So, after all that study, what do you believe now?” I was afraid he'd ask me that, so I had prepared an answer, the only one I could give. “Well, since neither is a proven theory, I guess you could say both views take a leap of faith.” I sat on the fence, because the new ideas I was encountering were overwhelming.
But researching that presentation made me realize that science has stories to tell about the world we live in. It gave me a new thirst to learn about medical discoveries, climate science, quantum mechanics and string theory (which boggle my mind). And over the years, each of my children in turn has asked me about evolution, prompting me to keep studying and learning. I don't have a difficult time explaining how I feel about both now.
Eventually, I became comfortable with not knowing, with uncertainty. Strangely enough, this didn't destroy my faith. Instead, it was strengthened. How can you have faith when everything has been proven? What became important to me were the lessons I could learn from each story, always interpreting them through the lens of Jesus.
Some people might call me progressive. I'm not uncomfortable with that label, although I prefer to say I'm open to learn—as long as God and his plan for our world are included. I guess I'm also raising progressive children, given the way my children often challenged teachers in their Christian school classes. I still hate math, but science is no longer an enemy—just don't ask me to dissect a frog!
Major Kathie Chiu grew up in The Salvation Army and has been an officer for 22 years. She has five children, including two teenaged boys still living at home, and eight grandchildren. She is the corps officer at Richmond Community Church, B.C.
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Although I was completely intimidated, this event had a profound impact on my faith journey. As a high school student, math and science were not my favourite subjects. Chemistry formulas, algebra and dissecting frogs gave me headaches and nausea. I enjoyed English literature, got lost in ancient history and philosophy, and excelled in the musical arts. When told I didn't need to take any more math and science classes, I jumped for joy and walked out of the guidance counsellor's office smiling all the way home.
The professor paired us up and asked us to choose sides for the debate. My classmate had no interest in presenting a case for evolution. He believed in a literal six-day creation. I hesitantly took on the opposing view. My theology teacher was positively glowing at the prospect of me finding out evolution was for the birds. He directed me to our education officer, a progressive creationist, who was equally pleased I was going to study a favourite topic of his and gave me several books to read.
I took the pile of books back to my campus apartment and began to read about carbon dating and paleontology. It was fascinating. It seemed there was quite a bit of scientific evidence supporting the view of an old earth, one that has evolved over time.
Eventually, I became comfortable with not knowing, with uncertainty. Strangely enough, this didn't destroy my faith. Instead, it was strengthened
I also began to learn a new way of studying the creation accounts in the Old Testament. I discovered there were two—Genesis 1 and 2 differed slightly, mixing up the order of creation. I hadn't really noticed this before. What if there were other inconsistencies?
There were, and each time I came across one I applied the same principles of study. At the same time, I remembered, “All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17 NRSV).
After presenting the evidence for evolution to my class that day in 1991, the teacher challenged me: “So, after all that study, what do you believe now?” I was afraid he'd ask me that, so I had prepared an answer, the only one I could give. “Well, since neither is a proven theory, I guess you could say both views take a leap of faith.” I sat on the fence, because the new ideas I was encountering were overwhelming.
But researching that presentation made me realize that science has stories to tell about the world we live in. It gave me a new thirst to learn about medical discoveries, climate science, quantum mechanics and string theory (which boggle my mind). And over the years, each of my children in turn has asked me about evolution, prompting me to keep studying and learning. I don't have a difficult time explaining how I feel about both now.
Eventually, I became comfortable with not knowing, with uncertainty. Strangely enough, this didn't destroy my faith. Instead, it was strengthened. How can you have faith when everything has been proven? What became important to me were the lessons I could learn from each story, always interpreting them through the lens of Jesus.
Some people might call me progressive. I'm not uncomfortable with that label, although I prefer to say I'm open to learn—as long as God and his plan for our world are included. I guess I'm also raising progressive children, given the way my children often challenged teachers in their Christian school classes. I still hate math, but science is no longer an enemy—just don't ask me to dissect a frog!
Major Kathie Chiu grew up in The Salvation Army and has been an officer for 22 years. She has five children, including two teenaged boys still living at home, and eight grandchildren. She is the corps officer at Richmond Community Church, B.C.
***
Salvationist.ca Commenting Policy: All comments on Salvationist.ca are moderated. We expect our readers to be respectful and courteous in their discussions, as if they were having a face-to-face conversation. Salvationist.ca reserves the right not to publish any comments that contain the following: vulgarity, obscenity, hate speech, threats, personal attacks, insults or defamatory statements.
Comment
On Sunday, January 30, 2022, David H. said:
On Wednesday, September 1, 2021, David Pflueger said:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6-cVj-ZRivqKeqAklhYfFFmmAdvwcnCT https://www.youtube.com/c/answersingenesis https://youtu.be/nY6Zrol5QEk https://youtu.be/Aw_1dc-8iSM https://youtu.be/7VDVZ19wy5Q https://youtu.be/fvdHLFEAg5U
On Tuesday, September 4, 2018, Kmclean said:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015, Christina said:
. How can you have faith when everything has been proven?
I think the question answers itself.
I myself don't need to see to believe but my faith grows ever stronger each year as science and history prove the bible more and more.
Science has actually PROVEN the young earth theory. And btw 6 days actually means 6000 years in this case. Not a literal day
Listen; all scripture is inspired of God so what's to doubt about a young earth? You also cannot pick and choose what parts of the bible to believe in. You either accept ALL of it as the unadulterated Word of God (including the concept of a young earth) or you reject all of it. You cant have it both ways
On Tuesday, April 14, 2015, Alonzo Twyne said:
On Monday, April 13, 2015, Jim Ellis said:
See: http://discovermagazine.com/2009/mar/19-dna-agrees-with-all-the-other-science-darwin-was-right
On Monday, April 13, 2015, Alonzo Twyne said:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2015, Kathie Chiu said:
First, whether or not you agree with evolution, that's not the reason I wrote this article. I suppose when you share your own personal journey, you put yourself in a vulnerable position - one where others can choose to misunderstand you or who will choose to call out your faith and doctrinal position.
Second, this is about my personal journey. While I hold to a conservative theology in everything that matters in the Army, and I hold fast to all the doctrines, there is wiggle room for people of differing opinions on creation and how it happened, how we interpret scripture in certain parts of the bible (our own Handbook of Doctrine instructs us to interpret carefully taking it in context) and how we look at the end time doctrine, number 11 and our view of just what Hell is. Some people believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, some believe something different. Neither are "spurious" teachings, their just differing views on things that are not essential to the faith.
There has been a disturbing trend in Evangelicalism these days, to make sure people believe all the right ways in non-essentials before they can enter the group and belong. I would hope we would be moving away from that in the Army and making sure that we hold to this:
"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.”
It's good to have a conversation and hear other sides. The one thing I do know is that however creation took place, there is a Creator God. He loves us so much that we'll never truly fathom. I don't think we're supposed to know everything and that is a good thing, it would probably blow our minds. For now, I have faith.
On Wednesday, April 1, 2015, Ray Harris said:
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, Jim Ellis said:
On Monday, March 30, 2015, Robin Reid said:
On Monday, March 30, 2015, Deanna said:
I applaud your faith, but I question your statement that you are ‘uncomfortable not knowing.’ Do you have all of the answers that human kind has been searching for since the beginning of time? If so, please share with us and put an end to the faith-based wars that are happening all over the world.
You say that you fear for the future of the army due to people who openly admit that they have questions, but I tell you that I fear for the future of Christianity due to people who insult those who say they are uncertain and who shame those for bravely admitting that they are not as knowledgeable as God.
On Monday, March 30, 2015, Phil Winter said:
Too often we find non-scientist Christians trying to make scientific explanations for their faith. This is totally unnecessary and implies a lack of faith. Science does not prove God to me, Christ reveals God to me. I do not need to square any of my faith with science, otherwise it stops being faith and become something else that only exists until science disproves it. Books like Lee Stroble's "The Case for the Creator" are a good example of this. They speak to the non-scientist using bad science that we are not able to recognize. Look at what current scientists say about the book and you will see how bad it is.
To demand that scripture be literally true in a quantifiable way is to take a very low view of it. Scripture needs to be honored for what it is and not degraded into what it is not. Scripture is the record of humanity's growing understanding of its relationship with God, explained through, story, poetry, metaphor, history, song, and wisdom teaching. It is not a science book full of historical facts. It is a revelation of the truth of God and who He is. It is the exploration of mankind's understanding and misunderstanding of him (Job being the most prominent example). If we fail to deal with scripture on its own terms then we miss out on the richness that it has for us and it becomes simply a tool with which we can beat each other.
I am very glad to see officers of this caliber, who are not afraid to wrestle with scripture and its meanings beyond the simplistic and literalistic interpretations that are so often cheap and irrelevant.
I spent the majority of my Christian years reading and defending the Bible in this way and have now realized how small it makes God, how clinical the faith becomes, and how ridiculous the Church can look. I am the product of creation but, hallelujah, my faith is evolving.
On Monday, March 30, 2015, Deanna said:
On Monday, March 30, 2015, Bruce Wagner said:
It may surprise readers to learn that neither creation nor evolution are theories. Creation - as described by the Bible - is not a theory, but rather a historical account. Evolution is not a theory (which requires supporting facts), but rather a weak hypothesis. On the other hand, “Intelligent Design” is a theory.
It is important to know that Christians are not enjoined to make a “leap of faith.” This is a ridiculous and abhorrent belief. The Christian worldview lines up far better with empirical evidences than the materialist worldview.
In her eighth paragraph Kathie implies that Christianity conflicts with science and/or vice versa. This is not the case as science has benefited greatly from the Christian worldview and there have been (and are) numerous scientists who are orthodox Christians.
While it is clear that finite minds cannot fathom omniscience or the myriad wonders of the universe, I personally hope I never become “comfortable” with “not knowing.”
Jesus, by his own words, believed the Genesis creation account (Mark 10:6) as did the apostle Paul (I Tim. 2:13-15). The “lens of Jesus” places him in is a historical genealogy leading back to Adam (see Luke). What would be the point of the “last Adam” if there were never a “first Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45)?
Kathie claims that she is "comfortable" being called a progressive. While the appellation may have a positive sound - as does pro-choice - it is similarly pernicious and cloaks a move away from Christian orthodoxy and towards liberal ideas and interpretation. While Kathie is likely a wonderful person, I fear for the future of the Army when officers/pastors offer such spurious teaching.
For those who are inclined to pursue further reading, I suggest exploring Lee Strobel’s, The Case for a Creator.
Bruce Wagner
On Sunday, March 22, 2015, Kathie Chiu said:
Terry, that's sounds like a good book. I'll have to check it out.
Unfortunately, Jeff, many of the Christian community actually believe in a literal six day creation story. That is what makes for a debate. While our God is powerful enough to do that, the evidence just doesn't support that idea.
Kathie
On Tuesday, March 17, 2015, Donald Jefcoat said:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2015, Jeff Brown said:
On Tuesday, March 17, 2015, Terry Aitken said:
I recently read "Creation and Time - a Biblical and scientific perspective on the creation-date controversy."
I have had a life long problem with reconciling the literal six thousand year date of the Earth's creation and the evidence of fossils. This book has been very revolutionary in my thinking on this matter without in any way detracting from the validity of Scripture. Many scientists have been able to come to terms with the Biblical account of creation if one understands that the word DAY in the original texts has a far wider meaning than a literal single 24 hour day, and "Creation and Time" explains this very well. I would therefore recommend it to all seekers after the truth.
Terry Aitken
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